1 00:00:12,370 --> 00:00:09,110 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:21,890 --> 00:00:12,380 from Australia for science and reason 3 00:00:24,930 --> 00:00:21,900 [Music] 4 00:00:28,530 --> 00:00:24,940 here since the skeptics on podcast 5 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:28,540 episode number 432 for the 29th of 6 00:00:34,890 --> 00:00:32,050 January 2017 Wow January's almost gone 7 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:34,900 already of us just the other week well 8 00:00:40,799 --> 00:00:37,330 maybe it was four weeks ago that we 9 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:40,809 welcomed in 2017 and this year certainly 10 00:00:46,670 --> 00:00:42,850 has not been disappointing when it comes 11 00:00:49,799 --> 00:00:46,680 to bizarre events and strange goings-on 12 00:00:53,010 --> 00:00:49,809 we'll get to that in a minute it was 13 00:00:56,370 --> 00:00:53,020 very sad to see the death of actor Sir 14 00:00:59,310 --> 00:00:56,380 John Hurt just yesterday and of course 15 00:01:02,180 --> 00:00:59,320 he was a marvelously multi talented 16 00:01:04,380 --> 00:01:02,190 actor famous in pop culture for playing 17 00:01:06,090 --> 00:01:04,390 character in the original alien movie 18 00:01:07,950 --> 00:01:06,100 playing one of the doctors the war 19 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:07,960 doctor and the doctor who series many 20 00:01:13,170 --> 00:01:10,690 other fantastic roles and it just goes 21 00:01:15,749 --> 00:01:13,180 to show that not all the top famous 22 00:01:17,370 --> 00:01:15,759 people died in 2016 but what's coming up 23 00:01:18,779 --> 00:01:17,380 on this week's episode of the skeptic 24 00:01:21,990 --> 00:01:18,789 zone we're going to have a report from 25 00:01:23,940 --> 00:01:22,000 Heidi Robinson and Alison Gaylord from 26 00:01:27,359 --> 00:01:23,950 the Northern Rivers vaccination 27 00:01:30,630 --> 00:01:27,369 supporters now not too long ago a local 28 00:01:32,969 --> 00:01:30,640 newspaper in their area right up the top 29 00:01:35,669 --> 00:01:32,979 of the state of New South Wales the 30 00:01:38,219 --> 00:01:35,679 Tweed Daily News the tweed that sound 31 00:01:43,469 --> 00:01:38,229 after the tweed river the river that 32 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:43,479 runs I think it runs between between New 33 00:01:47,249 --> 00:01:45,130 South Wales and Queensland or just near 34 00:01:51,199 --> 00:01:47,259 the border somewhere there well the 35 00:01:53,370 --> 00:01:51,209 Tweed Daily News ran a story which was 36 00:01:55,050 --> 00:01:53,380 extraordinary when you think about it 37 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:55,060 from the point of view of its showing 38 00:01:59,430 --> 00:01:57,130 just simply one side of the vaccination 39 00:02:02,010 --> 00:01:59,440 question which it was not really a 40 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:02,020 question anyway it gave air to 41 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:05,530 extremists and nutters one of them 42 00:02:12,229 --> 00:02:08,170 wearing a camera trail t-shirt as will 43 00:02:15,949 --> 00:02:12,239 be explained soon as Alison and Heidi 44 00:02:19,020 --> 00:02:15,959 bring you this story they bring you the 45 00:02:22,190 --> 00:02:19,030 original story as printed in the tree 46 00:02:26,339 --> 00:02:22,200 Daily News and get a feeling for how ur 47 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:26,349 how bad that was and their response in 48 00:02:30,449 --> 00:02:29,170 the form of an open letter and it's so 49 00:02:33,750 --> 00:02:30,459 good to see that the Northern Rivers 50 00:02:34,410 --> 00:02:33,760 vaccination supporters are continuing 51 00:02:39,270 --> 00:02:34,420 their 52 00:02:42,089 --> 00:02:39,280 of New South Wales which of course via 53 00:02:44,580 --> 00:02:42,099 their efforts goes globally I mean 54 00:02:47,580 --> 00:02:44,590 you're hearing about it right now and I 55 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:47,590 admire those people very much a young 56 00:02:52,710 --> 00:02:49,770 group they've only been active for a 57 00:02:54,540 --> 00:02:52,720 handful of years but boy are they making 58 00:02:56,850 --> 00:02:54,550 a difference coming up at the top of the 59 00:03:01,020 --> 00:02:56,860 show find out about their open letter to 60 00:03:03,839 --> 00:03:01,030 the Tweed Daily News following that we 61 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:03,849 have a story published at skeptics com a 62 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:06,850 you about criticism levelled at a 63 00:03:12,390 --> 00:03:09,010 research paper which seemed to indicate 64 00:03:14,490 --> 00:03:12,400 that acupuncture fur babies babies with 65 00:03:17,309 --> 00:03:14,500 colic was a good and beneficial thing 66 00:03:20,640 --> 00:03:17,319 was it was it indeed was it find out 67 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:20,650 soon when we cover that story then it's 68 00:03:26,759 --> 00:03:23,610 brouhaha from Australia science TV 69 00:03:28,979 --> 00:03:26,769 Australia science channel with Tanya 70 00:03:32,190 --> 00:03:28,989 Meyer this week this week 10 is going to 71 00:03:36,809 --> 00:03:32,200 be looking at problems with cell phone 72 00:03:38,940 --> 00:03:36,819 batteries and pedal power or pedal power 73 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:38,950 with a little bit of assistance that's 74 00:03:43,770 --> 00:03:41,290 brouhaha coming up a little later on 75 00:03:46,050 --> 00:03:43,780 then we have news of a torque down in 76 00:03:48,330 --> 00:03:46,060 Victoria for the Morty skeptics I talked 77 00:03:49,979 --> 00:03:48,340 about one of my favorite topics UFOs 78 00:03:52,500 --> 00:03:49,989 that should be interesting with steve 79 00:03:54,660 --> 00:03:52,510 roberts and if you're living in victoria 80 00:03:56,910 --> 00:03:54,670 if you're living in melbourne around the 81 00:03:58,949 --> 00:03:56,920 maury alec area especially that will be 82 00:04:01,259 --> 00:03:58,959 a great night out for you and speaking 83 00:04:03,930 --> 00:04:01,269 of UFOs following that it's maynards 84 00:04:06,630 --> 00:04:03,940 spooky action where Maynard will tell us 85 00:04:10,020 --> 00:04:06,640 about one of his favorite podcasts the 86 00:04:11,539 --> 00:04:10,030 UFO podcast or podcast UFO or something 87 00:04:14,970 --> 00:04:11,549 like that bit spooky a bit mysterious 88 00:04:18,330 --> 00:04:14,980 why does he listen to it and there's a 89 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:18,340 question a question will be posed for 90 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:21,970 you then to round off the show more 91 00:04:30,210 --> 00:04:25,450 homeopathy see more homeopathy equals 92 00:04:34,409 --> 00:04:30,220 less power less homeopathy is more 93 00:04:36,570 --> 00:04:34,419 powerful than more homeopathy and we 94 00:04:39,510 --> 00:04:36,580 have a story about homeopathy written by 95 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:39,520 Professor ed at ernst and it's a good 96 00:04:44,149 --> 00:04:41,770 one for skeptics as Ed's at ernst writes 97 00:04:46,409 --> 00:04:44,159 about some of the common mistakes 98 00:04:48,239 --> 00:04:46,419 skeptics make when talking about 99 00:04:50,819 --> 00:04:48,249 homeopathy some things to be 100 00:04:53,699 --> 00:04:50,829 aware of some things to look out for so 101 00:04:57,209 --> 00:04:53,709 you are better prepared when debating 102 00:04:59,219 --> 00:04:57,219 talking about homeopathy all that coming 103 00:05:01,139 --> 00:04:59,229 up on today's episode of the skeptic 104 00:05:06,569 --> 00:05:01,149 zone now there are many more stories 105 00:05:08,989 --> 00:05:06,579 this past week has proven to be what's 106 00:05:11,669 --> 00:05:08,999 the word I'm looking for dramatic I 107 00:05:13,289 --> 00:05:11,679 suppose you would say when it comes to 108 00:05:15,059 --> 00:05:13,299 politics which we normally don't cover 109 00:05:17,249 --> 00:05:15,069 on the skeptic zone but this one is a 110 00:05:20,999 --> 00:05:17,259 blockbuster folks what the trump 111 00:05:22,949 --> 00:05:21,009 administration are doing in a huge hurry 112 00:05:26,819 --> 00:05:22,959 it appears to me is certainly 113 00:05:28,109 --> 00:05:26,829 breathtaking and I note and I'm sure 114 00:05:30,409 --> 00:05:28,119 this is a story we're going to be 115 00:05:33,089 --> 00:05:30,419 bringing to you before long that 116 00:05:36,089 --> 00:05:33,099 scientists are now looking at are 117 00:05:38,039 --> 00:05:36,099 forming their own march against some of 118 00:05:40,679 --> 00:05:38,049 the policies of the new Trump 119 00:05:44,159 --> 00:05:40,689 administration as we speak there are 120 00:05:46,379 --> 00:05:44,169 protests at JFK Airport as as I record 121 00:05:48,419 --> 00:05:46,389 this I should say and there's just been 122 00:05:50,789 --> 00:05:48,429 so much news coming out of Washington 123 00:05:54,629 --> 00:05:50,799 that it's very hard to keep up oracle8 124 00:05:57,809 --> 00:05:54,639 or get to grips with now if you're like 125 00:06:00,989 --> 00:05:57,819 me and when you're using Facebook a lot 126 00:06:03,089 --> 00:06:00,999 of your feed will be consumed by what 127 00:06:05,100 --> 00:06:03,099 Trump is doing now and what laws are 128 00:06:07,489 --> 00:06:05,110 trying to be passed and all the rest of 129 00:06:12,239 --> 00:06:07,499 it all we can do is try to keep up and 130 00:06:14,309 --> 00:06:12,249 report to you the relevant issues when 131 00:06:16,499 --> 00:06:14,319 it comes to science and skepticism or 132 00:06:21,029 --> 00:06:16,509 maybe a bit wider in this case because 133 00:06:23,629 --> 00:06:21,039 in all my years which are many and all 134 00:06:26,399 --> 00:06:23,639 the presidents I've seen come and go 135 00:06:29,399 --> 00:06:26,409 this one so far really takes the cake 136 00:06:31,409 --> 00:06:29,409 and the icing and everything else and 137 00:06:33,479 --> 00:06:31,419 there is more news coming from overseas 138 00:06:35,249 --> 00:06:33,489 with the movie vax that we will get to 139 00:06:37,379 --> 00:06:35,259 probably in the next episode of the 140 00:06:42,539 --> 00:06:37,389 skeptic zone we hope to bring you some 141 00:06:45,929 --> 00:06:42,549 news of the akwa poll device a situation 142 00:06:48,509 --> 00:06:45,939 that I personally have been looking at 143 00:06:50,759 --> 00:06:48,519 for some months now and we hope though 144 00:06:53,909 --> 00:06:50,769 here's some good news about that soon us 145 00:06:56,729 --> 00:06:53,919 at least some news we can report about 146 00:06:58,439 --> 00:06:56,739 the echo poll this is the device which 147 00:07:00,479 --> 00:06:58,449 you whack on to the ceiling it sort of 148 00:07:01,410 --> 00:07:00,489 hangs down like a big ceiling light it's 149 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:01,420 a big 150 00:07:07,290 --> 00:07:04,810 sphere with a well what can be best 151 00:07:09,300 --> 00:07:07,300 described as a piece of Modern Art stuck 152 00:07:12,540 --> 00:07:09,310 inside and the claim is that this modern 153 00:07:15,150 --> 00:07:12,550 art will channel energies from the 154 00:07:19,220 --> 00:07:15,160 universe direct these energies into your 155 00:07:21,690 --> 00:07:19,230 walls and fix your rising damp problem 156 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:21,700 has no moving parts and requires no 157 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:24,970 power I think that sums it up anyway 158 00:07:29,730 --> 00:07:26,410 hopefully we can bring you something 159 00:07:35,220 --> 00:07:29,740 about that soon at least and there's a 160 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:35,230 story about the movie vax which is just 161 00:07:41,130 --> 00:07:38,890 being denied screening in the UK I think 162 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:41,140 this is all very hot off the wire sort 163 00:07:44,910 --> 00:07:42,850 of new so hopefully we can you bring you 164 00:07:46,830 --> 00:07:44,920 more about that too in the coming weeks 165 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:46,840 but now it's time for me to run 166 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:49,570 downstairs and have some cake because i 167 00:07:54,570 --> 00:07:52,450 think president Trump took the cake or 168 00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:54,580 takes the cake I better have some cake 169 00:08:02,170 --> 00:07:57,490 before he takes it all well I'm doing 170 00:08:02,180 --> 00:08:19,570 [Music] 171 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:23,570 it's the raw skeptic report with Heidi 172 00:08:35,899 --> 00:08:33,930 Robertson hello everyone Heidi Robertson 173 00:08:38,300 --> 00:08:35,909 from the Northern Rivers vaccination 174 00:08:41,750 --> 00:08:38,310 supporters it's great to be back for the 175 00:08:46,700 --> 00:08:41,760 skeptic zone and in your ears for 2017 176 00:08:49,430 --> 00:08:46,710 on the twenty-fifth of January 2017 a 177 00:08:51,740 --> 00:08:49,440 local newspaper the Tweed Daily News 178 00:08:54,050 --> 00:08:51,750 operating out of tweed heads northern 179 00:08:56,750 --> 00:08:54,060 New South Wales published an article 180 00:08:58,460 --> 00:08:56,760 that was both surprising and supremely 181 00:09:01,280 --> 00:08:58,470 disappointing for the members of our 182 00:09:04,100 --> 00:09:01,290 group we've worked hard with the media 183 00:09:06,260 --> 00:09:04,110 over the past four years to try to 184 00:09:09,260 --> 00:09:06,270 ensure that stories about vaccination 185 00:09:11,329 --> 00:09:09,270 don't contain false balance that is when 186 00:09:14,750 --> 00:09:11,339 the journalist equates the expertise of 187 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:14,760 vaccine researchers immunologists and 188 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:17,490 doctors with the field pinions of 189 00:09:22,970 --> 00:09:20,970 anti-vaccination activists we have had 190 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:22,980 great success in this region with the 191 00:09:28,010 --> 00:09:25,410 media and they have not approached the 192 00:09:31,310 --> 00:09:28,020 more well-known vaccine denies for their 193 00:09:33,380 --> 00:09:31,320 input for quite a while now when they 194 00:09:36,350 --> 00:09:33,390 have we have refused to take part in the 195 00:09:38,630 --> 00:09:36,360 interview explaining our stance that we 196 00:09:41,420 --> 00:09:38,640 do not debate the science of vaccination 197 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:41,430 and that we do not wish to give vaccine 198 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:43,890 denies legitimacy by appearing alongside 199 00:09:52,579 --> 00:09:49,770 them in print on TV or on radio stop the 200 00:09:54,470 --> 00:09:52,589 avn actually presented a poster at an 201 00:09:57,590 --> 00:09:54,480 immunization conference a couple of 202 00:10:01,160 --> 00:09:57,600 years ago showing data that reflects the 203 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:01,170 success of this tactic imagine our 204 00:10:06,650 --> 00:10:03,450 dismay then to see the following article 205 00:10:09,010 --> 00:10:06,660 in print along with a color image of a 206 00:10:12,470 --> 00:10:09,020 vaccine denier with a chemtrail 207 00:10:14,269 --> 00:10:12,480 conspiracy theorist they are pictured 208 00:10:16,940 --> 00:10:14,279 adorned with merchandise from 209 00:10:20,090 --> 00:10:16,950 Wakefield's anti-vaccination film vax 210 00:10:21,290 --> 00:10:20,100 and holding up a vax poster with the 211 00:10:24,290 --> 00:10:21,300 title the 212 00:10:27,650 --> 00:10:24,300 film they don't want you to see the 213 00:10:30,530 --> 00:10:27,660 caption to the photo reads tough message 214 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:30,540 anti-vaccination activists Robert 215 00:10:35,389 --> 00:10:33,330 Deutsch and Donna kousaka are in 216 00:10:39,050 --> 00:10:35,399 murwillumbah spreading the word about 217 00:10:41,710 --> 00:10:39,060 the dangers of vaccinations so here is 218 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:41,720 the transcript of the article titled 219 00:10:49,190 --> 00:10:44,130 anti-vaccine movement with the 220 00:10:52,340 --> 00:10:49,200 subheading tragedy prompts campaign by 221 00:10:54,530 --> 00:10:52,350 Mitchell Crawley activists have taken to 222 00:10:56,180 --> 00:10:54,540 murwillumbah streets to campaign for 223 00:10:58,550 --> 00:10:56,190 transparency from governments and 224 00:11:01,389 --> 00:10:58,560 medical professionals and to demand 225 00:11:04,759 --> 00:11:01,399 people get a choice on vaccinations 226 00:11:08,060 --> 00:11:04,769 Donna kousaka who describes herself as a 227 00:11:10,420 --> 00:11:08,070 pro-life freedom fighter chose to 228 00:11:13,970 --> 00:11:10,430 campaign after losing her husband in 229 00:11:17,269 --> 00:11:13,980 2015 she believes his death was as a 230 00:11:20,660 --> 00:11:17,279 result of vaccines my husband died of 231 00:11:23,210 --> 00:11:20,670 cancer ms cozy cassette that's what woke 232 00:11:24,889 --> 00:11:23,220 me up I was looking for alternate help 233 00:11:27,350 --> 00:11:24,899 in Australia and struggled to find 234 00:11:30,139 --> 00:11:27,360 anything I've always been following the 235 00:11:33,170 --> 00:11:30,149 vaccine issue but that just opened up my 236 00:11:36,110 --> 00:11:33,180 eyes it was related because my husband 237 00:11:39,110 --> 00:11:36,120 milosz would have had polio I think she 238 00:11:42,530 --> 00:11:39,120 means the polio vaccine back in the 50s 239 00:11:45,139 --> 00:11:42,540 and sv40 if you look on the centers for 240 00:11:48,560 --> 00:11:45,149 disease control and prevention website 241 00:11:52,850 --> 00:11:48,570 you'll find it buried in there that they 242 00:11:57,199 --> 00:11:52,860 think the sv40 causes cancer he passed 243 00:11:59,690 --> 00:11:57,209 away in July 2015 diagnosed on March the 244 00:12:04,400 --> 00:11:59,700 9th the day after his birthday which was 245 00:12:06,889 --> 00:12:04,410 just horrific ms kousaka says she wants 246 00:12:10,340 --> 00:12:06,899 informed consent and the government to 247 00:12:12,470 --> 00:12:10,350 tell us what's in a vaccine another 248 00:12:14,510 --> 00:12:12,480 campaigner Robert Deutsche who is in 249 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:14,520 Australia giving a series of talks on 250 00:12:19,250 --> 00:12:16,850 matters including Chemical trails 251 00:12:22,790 --> 00:12:19,260 claimed people weren't aware of the 252 00:12:24,650 --> 00:12:22,800 health repercussions of vaccines in all 253 00:12:27,199 --> 00:12:24,660 fairness the doctors should be fully 254 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:27,209 informing people of any side effects in 255 00:12:32,030 --> 00:12:29,610 advance of them getting vaccinations and 256 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:32,040 there should be an actual law that says 257 00:12:35,090 --> 00:12:34,170 people have to sign a consent that they 258 00:12:38,060 --> 00:12:35,100 were given this in 259 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:38,070 mation he said without them being given 260 00:12:44,210 --> 00:12:42,330 it it's not fair to any of us the 261 00:12:46,310 --> 00:12:44,220 federal government last year deemed 262 00:12:49,460 --> 00:12:46,320 parents who refuse to immunize their 263 00:12:52,220 --> 00:12:49,470 children receive no allowances these 264 00:12:55,820 --> 00:12:52,230 included child care benefits child care 265 00:12:57,800 --> 00:12:55,830 rebates and family tax benefits northern 266 00:13:01,450 --> 00:12:57,810 New South Wales health was contacted for 267 00:13:07,130 --> 00:13:01,460 comment and directed readers to ww 268 00:13:09,830 --> 00:13:07,140 immunize healthy ova you and that's the 269 00:13:12,710 --> 00:13:09,840 article there is a little side box which 270 00:13:16,810 --> 00:13:12,720 says vaccination and national program 271 00:13:19,730 --> 00:13:16,820 funds vaccines preventing flus measles 272 00:13:22,190 --> 00:13:19,740 meningococcal mumps whooping cough 273 00:13:25,430 --> 00:13:22,200 German measles chickenpox polio and 274 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:25,440 lockjaw and the second point in that box 275 00:13:31,910 --> 00:13:27,810 is the approval process for a vaccine 276 00:13:33,860 --> 00:13:31,920 can take up to 10 years we decided that 277 00:13:36,980 --> 00:13:33,870 an open letter to the editor was in 278 00:13:39,140 --> 00:13:36,990 order which we sent via email post it on 279 00:13:42,410 --> 00:13:39,150 our Facebook page and post it on the 280 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:42,420 Tweed Daily News Facebook page their 281 00:13:45,890 --> 00:13:44,010 Facebook page got a number of other 282 00:13:49,550 --> 00:13:45,900 comments from readers disappointed with 283 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:49,560 the article fellow administrator of our 284 00:13:54,010 --> 00:13:52,290 group nrvs Alison Gaylord will now read 285 00:13:58,480 --> 00:13:54,020 out our open letter 286 00:14:00,880 --> 00:13:58,490 [Music] 287 00:14:03,940 --> 00:14:00,890 the Northern Rivers vaccination 288 00:14:06,370 --> 00:14:03,950 supporters nrvs would like to express 289 00:14:08,769 --> 00:14:06,380 our concern and deep dismay regarding 290 00:14:12,070 --> 00:14:08,779 Mitchell collies article anti-vaccine 291 00:14:15,610 --> 00:14:12,080 movement published on Wednesday the 25th 292 00:14:20,290 --> 00:14:15,620 of January 2017 on page seven of the 293 00:14:22,269 --> 00:14:20,300 Tweed Daily News nrvs was formed in 2012 294 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:22,279 when a group of concerned community 295 00:14:27,090 --> 00:14:25,130 members realized how low the vaccination 296 00:14:29,590 --> 00:14:27,100 rates are in the Northern Rivers region 297 00:14:31,810 --> 00:14:29,600 there is much misinformation in this 298 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:31,820 region regarding vaccines and our 299 00:14:35,470 --> 00:14:33,050 mission is to correct this 300 00:14:37,930 --> 00:14:35,480 misinformation where we see it and put 301 00:14:40,829 --> 00:14:37,940 out factual information regarding the 302 00:14:43,449 --> 00:14:40,839 efficacy and safety of vaccination a 303 00:14:45,850 --> 00:14:43,459 small community group has since grown 304 00:14:47,220 --> 00:14:45,860 substantially and we were recently 305 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:47,230 endorsed by the world health 306 00:14:52,570 --> 00:14:49,970 organization as a reputable source of 307 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:52,580 information on vaccine safety and now 308 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:55,490 appear on their website we were very 309 00:15:00,460 --> 00:14:57,130 disappointed to see this article 310 00:15:03,730 --> 00:15:00,470 alongside a photo of two vaccine denying 311 00:15:06,250 --> 00:15:03,740 activists the photo alone is showing 312 00:15:08,319 --> 00:15:06,260 them promoting merchandise in relation 313 00:15:10,990 --> 00:15:08,329 to a film that maliciously spreads lies 314 00:15:13,150 --> 00:15:11,000 and misinformation and contains 315 00:15:17,199 --> 00:15:13,160 information easily demonstrated to be 316 00:15:20,199 --> 00:15:17,209 blatantly deceptive the film vax is 317 00:15:22,990 --> 00:15:20,209 backed and promoted by discredited dr. 318 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:23,000 Andrew Wakefield stripped of his medical 319 00:15:27,310 --> 00:15:25,130 license by the UK's British Medical 320 00:15:29,500 --> 00:15:27,320 Council when it was revealed he 321 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:29,510 performed unethical and unnecessary 322 00:15:34,540 --> 00:15:32,290 procedures on children and fraudulently 323 00:15:36,730 --> 00:15:34,550 misrepresented findings from a study he 324 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:36,740 was involved in for which he stood to 325 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:40,010 benefit financially it is frankly 326 00:15:44,290 --> 00:15:42,050 astounding that any journalist writing 327 00:15:46,630 --> 00:15:44,300 about vaccination would not be aware of 328 00:15:50,110 --> 00:15:46,640 Wakefield's history the article 329 00:15:52,170 --> 00:15:50,120 subheading tragedy prompts campaign is 330 00:15:54,910 --> 00:15:52,180 very misleading to the general public 331 00:15:57,699 --> 00:15:54,920 implying a correlation when there isn't 332 00:16:01,210 --> 00:15:57,709 one it is well known that vaccines do 333 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:01,220 not cause cancer and the sv40 factor has 334 00:16:06,730 --> 00:16:03,170 never been shown to have a causative 335 00:16:10,900 --> 00:16:06,740 link to cancer in fact there are now 336 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:10,910 vaccines Hep B and HPV that protect 337 00:16:15,010 --> 00:16:12,130 against certain cancer 338 00:16:16,990 --> 00:16:15,020 was the contrary information from Miss 339 00:16:18,820 --> 00:16:17,000 kousaka taken as a given by the 340 00:16:22,530 --> 00:16:18,830 journalist and editor of the Tweed Daily 341 00:16:25,690 --> 00:16:22,540 News informed consent is mentioned 342 00:16:27,700 --> 00:16:25,700 informed consent is very important but 343 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:27,710 only when the information is gleaned 344 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:31,610 from credible sources unfortunately 345 00:16:35,590 --> 00:16:33,770 anti-vaccination proponents do not 346 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:35,600 gather their information from credible 347 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:38,330 sources often their misinformation is 348 00:16:43,780 --> 00:16:40,850 obtained from anecdotes hearsay and 349 00:16:47,470 --> 00:16:43,790 sometimes conspiracy fueled social media 350 00:16:50,650 --> 00:16:47,480 sites governments and doctors do in fact 351 00:16:52,450 --> 00:16:50,660 advise what is in vaccines it is very 352 00:16:55,780 --> 00:16:52,460 easy to search this information from 353 00:16:57,580 --> 00:16:55,790 credible websites or your GP it is 354 00:17:00,130 --> 00:16:57,590 interesting to note that often when 355 00:17:02,020 --> 00:17:00,140 trying to discredit vaccines vaccine 356 00:17:04,540 --> 00:17:02,030 deniers will use the manufacturers 357 00:17:06,010 --> 00:17:04,550 inserts the very same documents they 358 00:17:09,220 --> 00:17:06,020 claim are being hidden by the 359 00:17:11,290 --> 00:17:09,230 authorities vaccines are stringently 360 00:17:13,420 --> 00:17:11,300 tested for years and undergo various 361 00:17:16,780 --> 00:17:13,430 trials before being used in the 362 00:17:18,910 --> 00:17:16,790 community on average it will take 10 to 363 00:17:22,180 --> 00:17:18,920 15 years for a vaccine to be approved 364 00:17:24,550 --> 00:17:22,190 for public use parents do already have 365 00:17:26,500 --> 00:17:24,560 to sign a form when their child is being 366 00:17:28,329 --> 00:17:26,510 vaccinated to show that they have 367 00:17:30,450 --> 00:17:28,339 received the information relevant to the 368 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:30,460 vaccines being administered at the time 369 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:33,290 they do not need to sign the form until 370 00:17:38,380 --> 00:17:35,330 they are satisfied with the information 371 00:17:40,930 --> 00:17:38,390 given Robert Deutsch is a well-known 372 00:17:42,850 --> 00:17:40,940 conspiracy proponent who believes that 373 00:17:45,490 --> 00:17:42,860 condensation trails from planes are 374 00:17:47,290 --> 00:17:45,500 actually chemtrails and that the 375 00:17:49,870 --> 00:17:47,300 population is being poisoned from the 376 00:17:51,730 --> 00:17:49,880 air it is concerning to think that 377 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:51,740 worried parents may take advice from a 378 00:17:55,930 --> 00:17:53,690 conspiracy theorist and an 379 00:17:59,170 --> 00:17:55,940 anti-vaccination activist as a result of 380 00:18:01,000 --> 00:17:59,180 this irresponsible article we would like 381 00:18:03,190 --> 00:18:01,010 to pose the question of whether the 382 00:18:05,470 --> 00:18:03,200 journalist and editor followed the 383 00:18:07,090 --> 00:18:05,480 journalistic code of conduct all the 384 00:18:09,490 --> 00:18:07,100 principles of the australian press 385 00:18:12,120 --> 00:18:09,500 council in fact checking any of the 386 00:18:14,620 --> 00:18:12,130 information published in the article 387 00:18:17,620 --> 00:18:14,630 nrvs has been involved in the past with 388 00:18:18,910 --> 00:18:17,630 your newspaper regarding vaccination the 389 00:18:20,230 --> 00:18:18,920 issue of false balance has been 390 00:18:22,420 --> 00:18:20,240 discussed at length with your 391 00:18:24,430 --> 00:18:22,430 journalists this makes it all the more 392 00:18:25,900 --> 00:18:24,440 disappointing that you have published 393 00:18:28,510 --> 00:18:25,910 such a fear mongering or 394 00:18:30,670 --> 00:18:28,520 to call if your readers would like 395 00:18:32,850 --> 00:18:30,680 credible information on vaccinations we 396 00:18:35,650 --> 00:18:32,860 would refer them to our website a 397 00:18:37,630 --> 00:18:35,660 parting thought would you interview a 398 00:18:39,340 --> 00:18:37,640 cosmologists regarding the complexities 399 00:18:42,220 --> 00:18:39,350 of the solar system and the known 400 00:18:44,350 --> 00:18:42,230 universe and then refer to Roger who 401 00:18:47,130 --> 00:18:44,360 believes the earth is flat for an 402 00:18:49,930 --> 00:18:47,140 alternative view thank you for your time 403 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:49,940 sincerely Northern Rivers vaccination 404 00:18:58,900 --> 00:18:55,730 supporters a reply to my post on the 405 00:19:00,700 --> 00:18:58,910 Tweed Daily News Facebook page got a 406 00:19:04,650 --> 00:19:00,710 response from the editor after receiving 407 00:19:07,660 --> 00:19:04,660 no response via email the response read 408 00:19:09,700 --> 00:19:07,670 thanks for your letter Heidi we will 409 00:19:11,350 --> 00:19:09,710 publish it in our next edition tomorrow 410 00:19:13,660 --> 00:19:11,360 although it may be edited for length 411 00:19:16,390 --> 00:19:13,670 purposes could you send us the best 412 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:16,400 contact numbers for your organization it 413 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:18,410 may be worth doing a follow-up story 414 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:21,530 giving your side and outlining your 415 00:19:26,500 --> 00:19:23,570 fight in the region against such 416 00:19:28,330 --> 00:19:26,510 anti-vaccination movement the reason we 417 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:28,340 covered this story was because I thought 418 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:30,050 it was interesting they were targeting 419 00:19:34,330 --> 00:19:32,450 our area although perhaps this was not 420 00:19:37,450 --> 00:19:34,340 relate in the article as well as it may 421 00:19:39,340 --> 00:19:37,460 have been personally I am a very strong 422 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:39,350 supporter of vaccination having grown up 423 00:19:44,140 --> 00:19:41,650 in Africa where people fight for it as 424 00:19:48,250 --> 00:19:44,150 highlighted in a recent article on your 425 00:19:53,410 --> 00:19:48,260 website please contact me ash and then 426 00:19:55,300 --> 00:19:53,420 the editor gives her email address at 427 00:19:57,460 --> 00:19:55,310 the time of recording I have not been 428 00:20:00,370 --> 00:19:57,470 able to find out if our letter was in 429 00:20:02,620 --> 00:20:00,380 fact published we will be in touch with 430 00:20:04,510 --> 00:20:02,630 the editor about a follow-up story and 431 00:20:07,660 --> 00:20:04,520 we'll let you know if anything comes of 432 00:20:10,990 --> 00:20:07,670 it till next time this has been hiding 433 00:20:18,430 --> 00:20:11,000 robertson from nrvs find us on Facebook 434 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:18,440 Twitter and our website wwn rvs info bye 435 00:20:34,020 --> 00:20:19,650 for now 436 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:37,060 hello Richard and all the listeners of 437 00:20:42,940 --> 00:20:40,010 skeptic zone my name is Ron levy and I'm 438 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:42,950 the producer and co-host of curious mind 439 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:45,410 it's about cast about science technology 440 00:20:53,980 --> 00:20:51,770 and history at wwc em-pod cmp OD dot net 441 00:20:56,230 --> 00:20:53,990 each episode will bring you interesting 442 00:20:59,290 --> 00:20:56,240 stories from a wide range of subjects 443 00:21:01,750 --> 00:20:59,300 from physics astronomy and medicine from 444 00:21:03,580 --> 00:21:01,760 arts to science fiction we strive for 445 00:21:05,950 --> 00:21:03,590 the highest production values both in 446 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:05,960 content and in delivery we already have 447 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:08,690 on the air episodes about German u-boats 448 00:21:14,260 --> 00:21:11,210 in Second World War about the history of 449 00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:14,270 x-rays and the war of currents between 450 00:21:22,290 --> 00:21:18,370 Tesla and Edison come and have a listen 451 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:33,820 [Music] 452 00:21:45,750 --> 00:21:42,540 wyd condemnation of pro acupuncture 453 00:21:49,050 --> 00:21:45,760 research paper on infant colic published 454 00:21:51,990 --> 00:21:49,060 at ww skeptics calm day you bite in 455 00:21:56,340 --> 00:21:52,000 mendham on the twenty-second of January 456 00:21:58,860 --> 00:21:56,350 2017 a controversial study that claims 457 00:22:00,960 --> 00:21:58,870 to have found proof that acupuncture is 458 00:22:04,260 --> 00:22:00,970 effective in treating colic in infants 459 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:04,270 has been widely rebuked in fact even the 460 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:06,490 associate editor of the journal where 461 00:22:11,010 --> 00:22:08,890 the study was published said quote in 462 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:11,020 technical terms the study is negative 463 00:22:16,830 --> 00:22:14,410 dot the primary outcome did not turn out 464 00:22:19,140 --> 00:22:16,840 to be statistically significant end 465 00:22:22,110 --> 00:22:19,150 quote the paper was authored by two 466 00:22:25,500 --> 00:22:22,120 academics from lund university in sweden 467 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:25,510 and involved blind testing of 147 468 00:22:31,140 --> 00:22:28,570 infants over two week period the infants 469 00:22:33,570 --> 00:22:31,150 were divided into three groups variously 470 00:22:35,430 --> 00:22:33,580 treated with traditional acupuncture up 471 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:35,440 to five needle points minimal 472 00:22:41,010 --> 00:22:38,530 acupuncture one needle point and no 473 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:41,020 acupuncture the authors claimed evidence 474 00:22:45,780 --> 00:22:43,090 that those infants treated with either 475 00:22:47,820 --> 00:22:45,790 form of acupuncture performed better in 476 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:47,830 alleviating colic fussing and crying 477 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:51,010 then those in the non acupuncture group 478 00:22:56,490 --> 00:22:53,890 the paper appeared in the acupuncture in 479 00:22:59,400 --> 00:22:56,500 medicine journal itself published by the 480 00:23:03,180 --> 00:22:59,410 British Medical Journal the B MJ's 481 00:23:06,360 --> 00:23:03,190 involvement with the a.i.m has been an 482 00:23:09,050 --> 00:23:06,370 aspect of debate that has also raised 483 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:09,060 the eyebrows if not the ire of many 484 00:23:14,670 --> 00:23:12,010 commentators much criticism has been 485 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:14,680 laid against the small sample size for 486 00:23:21,900 --> 00:23:18,690 the research michael cummings the a IM 487 00:23:24,450 --> 00:23:21,910 associate editor mentioned above agreed 488 00:23:27,420 --> 00:23:24,460 it was small but put that down to a lack 489 00:23:29,730 --> 00:23:27,430 of funding but most criticism by 490 00:23:33,380 --> 00:23:29,740 qualified commentators is in reference 491 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:33,390 to the interpretation of the data and 492 00:23:39,779 --> 00:23:36,490 statistical significance if any of the 493 00:23:41,969 --> 00:23:39,789 results while cummings comment about 494 00:23:44,759 --> 00:23:41,979 the results being quote not 495 00:23:47,700 --> 00:23:44,769 statistically significant men quote may 496 00:23:50,570 --> 00:23:47,710 have been given begrudgingly others have 497 00:23:53,489 --> 00:23:50,580 been much more overt and harsher 498 00:23:55,379 --> 00:23:53,499 professor ed at Ernst emeritus professor 499 00:23:58,109 --> 00:23:55,389 of complementary medicine at the 500 00:23:59,940 --> 00:23:58,119 University of Exeter and noted 501 00:24:02,549 --> 00:23:59,950 campaigner against poor evidence in 502 00:24:05,789 --> 00:24:02,559 alternative medicine said that the study 503 00:24:08,879 --> 00:24:05,799 quote confirms previous research showing 504 00:24:11,489 --> 00:24:08,889 that acupuncture is a theatrical placebo 505 00:24:14,099 --> 00:24:11,499 the study was designed without an 506 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:14,109 adequate placebo group therefore 507 00:24:18,269 --> 00:24:16,330 conclusions about specific therapeutic 508 00:24:21,779 --> 00:24:18,279 effects of acupuncture are not 509 00:24:24,239 --> 00:24:21,789 permissible quote we know that colicky 510 00:24:26,999 --> 00:24:24,249 babies respond even to minimal attention 511 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:27,009 and this trial confirms that a little 512 00:24:33,649 --> 00:24:30,450 additional TLC will generate an effect 513 00:24:36,389 --> 00:24:33,659 the observed outcome is therefore not 514 00:24:39,149 --> 00:24:36,399 necessarily related to acupuncture end 515 00:24:41,849 --> 00:24:39,159 quote professor David Calhoun emeritus 516 00:24:44,629 --> 00:24:41,859 professor of pharmacology University 517 00:24:47,310 --> 00:24:44,639 College London was even blunter 518 00:24:49,529 --> 00:24:47,320 describing it as quote one of the worst 519 00:24:52,139 --> 00:24:49,539 papers in acupuncture that I've come 520 00:24:54,029 --> 00:24:52,149 across Calhoun who told Australian 521 00:24:56,879 --> 00:24:54,039 skeptics that quote I've been dealing 522 00:24:59,399 --> 00:24:56,889 with little else but this ever since it 523 00:25:02,489 --> 00:24:59,409 came out in quote said in the UK science 524 00:25:04,499 --> 00:25:02,499 media center roundup that quote the 525 00:25:06,299 --> 00:25:04,509 statistical analysis and the papers is 526 00:25:09,659 --> 00:25:06,309 incomplete this should have been 527 00:25:13,399 --> 00:25:09,669 detected by the referees but it wasn't 528 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:13,409 for a start the opening statement a 529 00:25:20,299 --> 00:25:16,570 two-sided p-value lesser than or equal 530 00:25:23,700 --> 00:25:20,309 to 0.05 was considered statistically 531 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:23,710 significant is simply unacceptable in 532 00:25:28,019 --> 00:25:25,570 the light of all the recent work about 533 00:25:30,599 --> 00:25:28,029 reproducibility when quote more details 534 00:25:33,029 --> 00:25:30,609 of Calhoun's views on the statistics 535 00:25:35,969 --> 00:25:33,039 procedure involved in the research can 536 00:25:38,339 --> 00:25:35,979 be found in the round up the paper 537 00:25:40,799 --> 00:25:38,349 received much publicity with hundreds of 538 00:25:43,349 --> 00:25:40,809 media outlets covering the research 539 00:25:46,710 --> 00:25:43,359 often basing their reports on a press 540 00:25:49,289 --> 00:25:46,720 release issued by the bmj calling the 541 00:25:52,780 --> 00:25:49,299 release quote hyperbole end quote and 542 00:25:55,540 --> 00:25:52,790 quote shockingly misleading and quote 543 00:25:58,570 --> 00:25:55,550 hoon said in his blog dc's in probable 544 00:26:00,820 --> 00:25:58,580 science that quote the bmj group should 545 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:00,830 not be mixing up press releases about 546 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:03,050 real medicine with press releases about 547 00:26:08,170 --> 00:26:05,690 quackery there seems to be something 548 00:26:10,510 --> 00:26:08,180 about quackery that's click bait for the 549 00:26:13,120 --> 00:26:10,520 mainstream media men quote nonetheless 550 00:26:15,430 --> 00:26:13,130 many media outlets also included 551 00:26:17,530 --> 00:26:15,440 comments from Calhoun and others 552 00:26:20,740 --> 00:26:17,540 decrying what they said were sloppy 553 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:20,750 statistical analysis and over reaching 554 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:24,050 conclusions the one person quoted in the 555 00:26:28,510 --> 00:26:26,210 science media center round up with a 556 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:28,520 positive response was Professor George 557 00:26:33,790 --> 00:26:31,250 Lewis professor of Health Research at 558 00:26:36,070 --> 00:26:33,800 the University of Southampton who said 559 00:26:38,740 --> 00:26:36,080 quote this looks to me to be a 560 00:26:41,410 --> 00:26:38,750 good-sized fastidious well conducted 561 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:41,420 study Cochrane a for an acupuncture 562 00:26:46,870 --> 00:26:43,730 trial in which the therapist cannot be 563 00:26:49,060 --> 00:26:46,880 blinded the outcome is clear and the 564 00:26:51,790 --> 00:26:49,070 power of the study seems reasonable 565 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:51,800 which suggests that medical acupuncture 566 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:54,530 is a reasonable and as far as we know 567 00:27:00,190 --> 00:26:56,930 safe intervention for infant colic and 568 00:27:03,670 --> 00:27:00,200 quote however Calhoun described Lueth as 569 00:27:06,310 --> 00:27:03,680 quote the well-known apologist for all 570 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:06,320 things quack 'ish end quote adding that 571 00:27:12,070 --> 00:27:08,930 lueth showed what he called quote and 572 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:12,080 ignorance of statistics that would shame 573 00:27:18,430 --> 00:27:15,290 and undergraduate end quote Calhoun 574 00:27:20,830 --> 00:27:18,440 summed up quote the design of the child 575 00:27:23,530 --> 00:27:20,840 is reasonable apart from the control 576 00:27:26,380 --> 00:27:23,540 group but the statistical analysis is 577 00:27:28,750 --> 00:27:26,390 appalling it's very likely that there 578 00:27:31,810 --> 00:27:28,760 aren't any real effects of acupuncture 579 00:27:33,730 --> 00:27:31,820 at all this paper serves more to muddy 580 00:27:36,550 --> 00:27:33,740 the waters then to add useful 581 00:27:39,570 --> 00:27:36,560 information it's a model for the sort of 582 00:27:42,700 --> 00:27:39,580 mistakes that have led to the crisis in 583 00:27:45,610 --> 00:27:42,710 reproducibility the bmj should not be 584 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:45,620 publishing this sort of stuff and the 585 00:27:52,460 --> 00:27:48,170 referees seem to have no understanding 586 00:27:57,450 --> 00:27:55,590 and that was wide condemnation of pro 587 00:28:00,060 --> 00:27:57,460 acupuncture research paper on infant 588 00:28:02,810 --> 00:28:00,070 colic written by Tim mendham published 589 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:02,820 on the twenty-second of January 2017 at 590 00:28:27,630 --> 00:28:24,970 ww skeptics calm a you and now direct 591 00:28:34,490 --> 00:28:27,640 from the cafe at Australia's science 592 00:28:39,390 --> 00:28:37,230 you all know about the trouble Samsung 593 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:39,400 is having at the moment no doubt the 594 00:28:43,890 --> 00:28:41,530 cost of the company is going to be huge 595 00:28:46,980 --> 00:28:43,900 in terms of dollars I mean those 596 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:46,990 fireproof boxes can't be cheap but the 597 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:48,970 dollars cost is nothing compared to the 598 00:28:54,810 --> 00:28:51,850 environmental costs smartphones aren't 599 00:28:57,540 --> 00:28:54,820 really recycled not like our old school 600 00:28:59,550 --> 00:28:57,550 phones are we haven't really worked out 601 00:29:02,880 --> 00:28:59,560 how to do it and make use of the bits we 602 00:29:05,700 --> 00:29:02,890 end up with about 50 rare earth minerals 603 00:29:07,950 --> 00:29:05,710 and metals end up in your phone their 604 00:29:10,350 --> 00:29:07,960 mind from around the world transported 605 00:29:13,620 --> 00:29:10,360 to factories put into phones and shipped 606 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:13,630 back around the world now Samsung's 607 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:15,610 phones are being shipped around the 608 00:29:21,900 --> 00:29:19,210 world again only to have about 12 of 609 00:29:24,660 --> 00:29:21,910 those metals recycled the rest will be 610 00:29:27,170 --> 00:29:24,670 thrown away including all the rare stuff 611 00:29:30,030 --> 00:29:27,180 that the earth is fast running out of if 612 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:30,040 Samsung hadn't glued in the battery they 613 00:29:34,140 --> 00:29:31,690 might have been able to recycle a few 614 00:29:36,150 --> 00:29:34,150 more but i guess if they hadn't glued in 615 00:29:39,810 --> 00:29:36,160 the battery we wouldn't be having this 616 00:29:42,570 --> 00:29:39,820 conversation yes Samsung will be taking 617 00:29:44,310 --> 00:29:42,580 a big loss on the Galaxy seven but the 618 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:44,320 environment will be taking an even 619 00:29:53,620 --> 00:29:51,220 this week cycling fanatics are going 620 00:29:54,610 --> 00:29:53,630 crazy for the tour down under but if 621 00:29:57,039 --> 00:29:54,620 you're anything like me you're probably 622 00:30:00,279 --> 00:29:57,049 just wondering why the hell people put 623 00:30:03,249 --> 00:30:00,289 their bodies through such torture but 624 00:30:05,139 --> 00:30:03,259 what have you had some help what if you 625 00:30:07,659 --> 00:30:05,149 did what we will really wanted to do and 626 00:30:11,019 --> 00:30:07,669 you put a tiny electric motor in your 627 00:30:12,940 --> 00:30:11,029 life maybe it sounds unrealistic but the 628 00:30:15,430 --> 00:30:12,950 rule-makers of cycling are actually 629 00:30:17,230 --> 00:30:15,440 worried about cheats doing it just now 630 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:17,240 French politicians have tried to make it 631 00:30:21,639 --> 00:30:19,970 a criminal offense in pro sport but 632 00:30:23,860 --> 00:30:21,649 every time there's a crackdown on one 633 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:23,870 type of cheating another one turns up 634 00:30:28,299 --> 00:30:26,690 and hey while we don't condone it it's 635 00:30:29,940 --> 00:30:28,309 pretty interesting to see what the 636 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:29,950 cheats are going to come up with next 637 00:30:34,889 --> 00:30:32,210 just think what they could do if they 638 00:30:37,690 --> 00:30:34,899 put their creativity to honest use and 639 00:30:39,759 --> 00:30:37,700 you know what for mere mortals like me a 640 00:30:41,529 --> 00:30:39,769 tiny motor in my bike is a great idea 641 00:30:43,539 --> 00:30:41,539 it's not going to make me the world 642 00:30:48,220 --> 00:30:43,549 champion but trust me I need all the 643 00:30:52,029 --> 00:30:48,230 help I can get for more brouhaha and 644 00:30:55,220 --> 00:30:52,039 Australian science head for ww Australia 645 00:31:07,180 --> 00:30:55,230 science TV 646 00:31:10,130 --> 00:31:07,190 [Music] 647 00:31:12,919 --> 00:31:10,140 now here's news of a meetup in Victoria 648 00:31:15,860 --> 00:31:12,929 the more d alec skeptics in the pub 649 00:31:17,900 --> 00:31:15,870 known as more d skeptics in the pub have 650 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:17,910 a meeting on tuesday the seventh of 651 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:20,570 februari starting at seven thirty p.m. 652 00:31:26,060 --> 00:31:23,850 UFO belief and religion by the one and 653 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:26,070 only dr steve roberts an old friend of 654 00:31:32,270 --> 00:31:29,250 the skeptic zone dr steve roberts a UFO 655 00:31:34,490 --> 00:31:32,280 expert but how can anybody be an expert 656 00:31:37,159 --> 00:31:34,500 in something that is unknown hmmm will 657 00:31:39,890 --> 00:31:37,169 attempt to describe the UFO believers 658 00:31:42,950 --> 00:31:39,900 mindset drawing parallels with how 659 00:31:44,510 --> 00:31:42,960 religions develop steve's cheerful talk 660 00:31:47,690 --> 00:31:44,520 i'm reading this off the website folks 661 00:31:51,919 --> 00:31:47,700 just his cheerful talk will feature 662 00:31:55,159 --> 00:31:51,929 numerous jokes i hope so what's a UFO 663 00:31:57,350 --> 00:31:55,169 joke and relevant quotations from monty 664 00:32:00,110 --> 00:31:57,360 python's life of brian this does sound 665 00:32:02,390 --> 00:32:00,120 like a good talk all are welcome except 666 00:32:04,970 --> 00:32:02,400 the popular front of Judea yes very much 667 00:32:07,730 --> 00:32:04,980 Steve Roberts is a long-standing member 668 00:32:10,549 --> 00:32:07,740 of Australian skeptics and he is the 669 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:10,559 author of dr. Bob's trivia quiz the 670 00:32:15,020 --> 00:32:12,210 answers to which you will not find in 671 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:15,030 any encyclopedia steve has a PhD in 672 00:32:20,930 --> 00:32:17,250 chemistry but now works as a consultant 673 00:32:23,659 --> 00:32:20,940 and cryptologist for major banks he even 674 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:23,669 worked as an intelligence analyst during 675 00:32:31,159 --> 00:32:27,450 the Cold War Steve don't retire just yet 676 00:32:33,049 --> 00:32:31,169 anyway UFOs belief and religion by dr. 677 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:33,059 Steve Roberts it sounds like a really 678 00:32:38,180 --> 00:32:35,250 great talk for more information just 679 00:32:41,299 --> 00:32:38,190 google more d alec skeptics in the pub 680 00:32:43,549 --> 00:32:41,309 or mor di Morty skeptics in the pub will 681 00:32:46,669 --> 00:32:43,559 simply click the link in this week's 682 00:32:49,850 --> 00:32:46,679 show notes so that's Tuesday the seventh 683 00:32:52,020 --> 00:32:49,860 of februari at seven thirty PM Modi Alec 684 00:33:06,190 --> 00:32:52,030 sporting club in Victoria 685 00:33:13,750 --> 00:33:10,879 here's Maynard spooky action at a 686 00:33:21,100 --> 00:33:18,120 ooh maenad spooky action at a distance 687 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:21,110 named after oh another thing that swap 688 00:33:23,830 --> 00:33:22,610 so everyone's idea that I don't know 689 00:33:25,990 --> 00:33:23,840 look it up at home and speaking of 690 00:33:28,540 --> 00:33:26,000 looking it up look up Richard Saunders 691 00:33:30,540 --> 00:33:28,550 hello may night I love to come here to 692 00:33:33,670 --> 00:33:30,550 visit the Maynard international Studios 693 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:33,680 annex yes we're just watching two shows 694 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:35,330 at the moment on the TV we've been 695 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:37,130 watching out what on earth which is a 696 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:39,890 show about satellite photos that people 697 00:33:44,740 --> 00:33:42,170 speculate about and we're watching now 698 00:33:46,930 --> 00:33:44,750 you have been warned which has a whole 699 00:33:48,610 --> 00:33:46,940 bunch of people doing wacky stuff on 700 00:33:50,590 --> 00:33:48,620 video shows that they do sometimes 701 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:50,600 hurting themselves but it has scientists 702 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:52,370 explaining the parabola like if you go 703 00:33:56,950 --> 00:33:54,410 to jump a bike over a roof how fav that 704 00:33:58,360 --> 00:33:56,960 I come from to do it and you know what I 705 00:34:00,490 --> 00:33:58,370 only come over here may not to watch 706 00:34:02,410 --> 00:34:00,500 your cable TV from time to time towards 707 00:34:04,300 --> 00:34:02,420 these crazy shows but it's a lot of fun 708 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:04,310 yes actually watching someone boiling 709 00:34:08,169 --> 00:34:06,890 coffee in sand at the moment and that's 710 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:08,179 all got something to do with inductive 711 00:34:11,620 --> 00:34:10,010 heating or something it's very 712 00:34:13,570 --> 00:34:11,630 educational well I'd say what's 713 00:34:16,720 --> 00:34:13,580 educational too as you know I listened 714 00:34:18,190 --> 00:34:16,730 to the the true sound of the universe I 715 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:18,200 like a lot of alternative punk 716 00:34:21,970 --> 00:34:21,050 alternative podcasts with and I think 717 00:34:25,629 --> 00:34:21,980 you would describe them as having 718 00:34:28,330 --> 00:34:25,639 alternative facts Richard you've got 719 00:34:29,649 --> 00:34:28,340 that bad no I do enjoy your segments 720 00:34:31,330 --> 00:34:29,659 every now and then on the skeptics and 721 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:31,340 where is it every now and then we don't 722 00:34:35,530 --> 00:34:33,770 know yet what's may not listening to and 723 00:34:37,510 --> 00:34:35,540 here's another one here's one that came 724 00:34:40,510 --> 00:34:37,520 out this week one the podcasts are like 725 00:34:43,330 --> 00:34:40,520 listening to is called podcast UFO now 726 00:34:45,340 --> 00:34:43,340 the host is Martin Willis and they also 727 00:34:48,460 --> 00:34:45,350 have giving weekly updates and this is 728 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:48,470 worth listening to whether you are fan 729 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:50,810 who you f ology or not that's Alejandro 730 00:34:55,899 --> 00:34:53,690 Rogers he gives weekly updates and he 731 00:34:57,340 --> 00:34:55,909 just mentions all the latest sightings 732 00:34:58,450 --> 00:34:57,350 that have been around and he's not 733 00:35:00,280 --> 00:34:58,460 saying that these things are definitely 734 00:35:02,470 --> 00:35:00,290 craft from outer space he's just saying 735 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:02,480 telling you where the lights are in the 736 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:05,690 sky there was a recent UFO flap down 737 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:08,330 Chile way there was a an infrared photo 738 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:09,890 they released that the Chilean 739 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:11,330 government couldn't work out what it was 740 00:35:17,110 --> 00:35:14,450 I think and it turned out to be one of 741 00:35:20,050 --> 00:35:17,120 those very large airliners flying flying 742 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:20,060 away front from the camera and so it was 743 00:35:22,900 --> 00:35:21,410 worked out that that's turned out what 744 00:35:24,340 --> 00:35:22,910 it was so that's why they couldn't work 745 00:35:26,410 --> 00:35:24,350 out the distance in size of this object 746 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:26,420 cuz it was very big and it was away from 747 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:27,090 the camera 748 00:35:32,300 --> 00:35:30,570 and how did you discover this one it's 749 00:35:34,460 --> 00:35:32,310 yeah and what it what a great name I 750 00:35:38,180 --> 00:35:34,470 must say for a website in a podcast 751 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:38,190 podcast UFO ponticar podcast UFO calm is 752 00:35:41,330 --> 00:35:39,810 where it's at and they talked to all 753 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:41,340 sorts of well look because I just look 754 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:42,930 around I just look around i look at you 755 00:35:46,820 --> 00:35:44,490 followed you all that sort of thing and 756 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:46,830 you know um that's what i'm doing later 757 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:48,450 tonight people you might think i'm doing 758 00:35:52,250 --> 00:35:50,490 other stuff but that's what I'm doing 759 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:52,260 late at night but the latest guests they 760 00:35:57,920 --> 00:35:55,290 had i believe it was showed 237 i think 761 00:35:59,780 --> 00:35:57,930 it was they had nick redfern now Nick 762 00:36:02,540 --> 00:35:59,790 Redfern used to work for the ministry of 763 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:02,550 defense in the UK looking after the part 764 00:36:06,950 --> 00:36:04,410 the Department of strange sightings and 765 00:36:09,230 --> 00:36:06,960 things like that he would sort of note 766 00:36:10,580 --> 00:36:09,240 them I don't think he had any power to 767 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:10,590 do much investigation but he'd certainly 768 00:36:15,170 --> 00:36:12,530 note them and see what was going on and 769 00:36:18,140 --> 00:36:15,180 he was a guest on the show and towards 770 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:18,150 the end of that show on that podcast 237 771 00:36:24,620 --> 00:36:21,450 they asked him what would be the 772 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:24,630 definitive evidence that would convince 773 00:36:30,140 --> 00:36:28,170 skeptics that UFOs are a real phenomena 774 00:36:33,380 --> 00:36:30,150 of some sort and not just some sort of 775 00:36:35,500 --> 00:36:33,390 thing that people are imagining and this 776 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:35,510 is what he said and I think you want to 777 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:37,650 phrase this as a question to the 778 00:36:41,030 --> 00:36:39,210 audience I do now we'll get about to 779 00:36:44,660 --> 00:36:41,040 play a clip from this this show the 780 00:36:46,910 --> 00:36:44,670 podcast UFO and have a listen to this 781 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:46,920 clip have a listen to the arguments and 782 00:36:53,570 --> 00:36:51,690 we would like your response now do you 783 00:36:55,940 --> 00:36:53,580 think there are some logical fallacies 784 00:36:58,340 --> 00:36:55,950 going on here if so which ones are they 785 00:37:00,200 --> 00:36:58,350 and can you sort of explain those when 786 00:37:02,630 --> 00:37:00,210 you come up with your answers go to our 787 00:37:04,970 --> 00:37:02,640 facebook page a facebook page of the 788 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:04,980 skeptic zone i'll link ad-skipping zone 789 00:37:10,150 --> 00:37:08,490 TV and in the comment sections for this 790 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:10,160 week's episode give us your thoughts 791 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:12,690 let's have a listen as a Martin Willis 792 00:37:19,610 --> 00:37:16,650 asks guest Nick Redfern on episode 237 a 793 00:37:21,830 --> 00:37:19,620 podcast UFO and see what you think yeah 794 00:37:24,710 --> 00:37:21,840 so when I've talked to skeptics I've had 795 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:24,720 a few on the show in the past and you 796 00:37:28,700 --> 00:37:26,010 know I've asked them a question what 797 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:28,710 type of proof would you actually need 798 00:37:34,310 --> 00:37:32,370 and they that the answers I get are 799 00:37:36,860 --> 00:37:34,320 always the same you know physical 800 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:36,870 evidence something they can you know 801 00:37:40,720 --> 00:37:38,570 research in you know 802 00:37:44,740 --> 00:37:40,730 in their hands type of thing I remember 803 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:44,750 of seth shostack from SETI said he would 804 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:48,290 need a wing in the Smithsonian with UFO 805 00:37:53,980 --> 00:37:51,650 parts in it before he believed in it so 806 00:37:57,100 --> 00:37:53,990 well you know I mean I understand sort 807 00:38:02,530 --> 00:37:57,110 of the need for evidence but you know 808 00:38:04,030 --> 00:38:02,540 sometimes the body of data be certain if 809 00:38:06,460 --> 00:38:04,040 not proof it's definitely sort of 810 00:38:09,130 --> 00:38:06,470 persuasive I mean you know there are 811 00:38:11,110 --> 00:38:09,140 examples where people have been found 812 00:38:15,070 --> 00:38:11,120 guilty of murder when there's nobody you 813 00:38:16,750 --> 00:38:15,080 know millions of twelve billions of 814 00:38:18,970 --> 00:38:16,760 people not millions millions of people 815 00:38:21,610 --> 00:38:18,980 millions of people you know believe in a 816 00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:21,620 God you know and I'm sort of open-minded 817 00:38:26,410 --> 00:38:24,170 on the whole phenomenon of that as to 818 00:38:29,530 --> 00:38:26,420 what you know the situation really is 819 00:38:32,620 --> 00:38:29,540 but you know I don't mean this we 820 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:32,630 disrespect I mainly just as a fact you 821 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:34,130 know billions of people believe in the 822 00:38:39,730 --> 00:38:38,090 existence of a god unbelief alone you 823 00:38:41,260 --> 00:38:39,740 know and there's nothing wrong with that 824 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:41,270 you know I don't have a problem with 825 00:38:47,230 --> 00:38:43,370 people who have faith or anything like 826 00:38:51,490 --> 00:38:47,240 that at all but you know I think you 827 00:38:53,140 --> 00:38:51,500 can't criticize ufology for believing 828 00:38:55,270 --> 00:38:53,150 the accounts and believing the 829 00:38:58,060 --> 00:38:55,280 statistics when somebody else believes 830 00:39:01,930 --> 00:38:58,070 you know that when they died some part 831 00:39:05,230 --> 00:39:01,940 of the body continues you know so I 832 00:39:07,810 --> 00:39:05,240 think in that sense if we're going to be 833 00:39:12,340 --> 00:39:07,820 criticized for believing in things then 834 00:39:14,890 --> 00:39:12,350 that should apply across the board or it 835 00:39:17,500 --> 00:39:14,900 shouldn't apply at all you know I think 836 00:39:20,650 --> 00:39:17,510 we were flying triangles do we have a 837 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:20,660 flying triangle in hand no we don't can 838 00:39:25,900 --> 00:39:23,810 we make a persuasive case but allows us 839 00:39:28,180 --> 00:39:25,910 to believe these things are real yes we 840 00:39:30,940 --> 00:39:28,190 can because of you know we have a few 841 00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:30,950 photographs and we have highly credible 842 00:39:38,020 --> 00:39:34,730 testimony from military personnel so in 843 00:39:40,780 --> 00:39:38,030 that sense you know belief you know 844 00:39:42,970 --> 00:39:40,790 become sort of a blurry line really well 845 00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:42,980 see for me that's a that's a that's an 846 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:44,810 argument to me that it obscures it a bit 847 00:39:49,510 --> 00:39:47,690 because I I would actually say that if 848 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:49,520 people are experiencing or witnessing 849 00:39:51,970 --> 00:39:51,530 something there is a phenomenon going on 850 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:51,980 even 851 00:39:55,750 --> 00:39:54,290 it isn't purely physical well I don't 852 00:39:57,760 --> 00:39:55,760 want to say too much because I've made 853 00:40:00,460 --> 00:39:57,770 up when I listened to it I was in fact 854 00:40:02,890 --> 00:40:00,470 mentioning to you off microphone oh this 855 00:40:04,870 --> 00:40:02,900 this this logical fallacy in this chain 856 00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:04,880 of arguments but we are interested in 857 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:06,530 what you think dear listeners what you 858 00:40:10,150 --> 00:40:08,210 think yeah well you you suggested a 859 00:40:11,500 --> 00:40:10,160 Latin phrase i think it was caveat 860 00:40:12,670 --> 00:40:11,510 emptor or something like that and I 861 00:40:21,099 --> 00:40:12,680 thought well it's got nothing to do it 862 00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:21,109 shopping at aldi but I digress then yes 863 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:23,690 yes okay yes oh yes oh so people can go 864 00:40:27,730 --> 00:40:26,090 where and do what all right if you go if 865 00:40:29,740 --> 00:40:27,740 you go to a facebook and just look up 866 00:40:32,859 --> 00:40:29,750 the skeptic zone and go to our facebook 867 00:40:35,859 --> 00:40:32,869 page or go to skeptics zone dot TV there 868 00:40:38,290 --> 00:40:35,869 is a link there to the facebook page and 869 00:40:39,730 --> 00:40:38,300 every week in fact you can if you so 870 00:41:02,890 --> 00:40:39,740 wish you can put your comments up there 871 00:41:09,190 --> 00:41:07,539 hey Richard oh hi Trish well would you 872 00:41:11,380 --> 00:41:09,200 like a coffee yeah thanks what you're 873 00:41:13,779 --> 00:41:11,390 working on trying to come up with a new 874 00:41:16,569 --> 00:41:13,789 promo to play on the skeptic zone who's 875 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:16,579 it for the good thinking society in the 876 00:41:21,339 --> 00:41:19,010 UK you know Michael Marshall Simon Singh 877 00:41:23,109 --> 00:41:21,349 Nora Thomas and black cloud oh yeah I 878 00:41:25,349 --> 00:41:23,119 know them they've been doing some great 879 00:41:28,329 --> 00:41:25,359 work investigating veterinary homeopathy 880 00:41:30,700 --> 00:41:28,339 fit Andrey homeopathy what you sugarpill 881 00:41:31,870 --> 00:41:30,710 this for cows I know right and also 882 00:41:34,049 --> 00:41:31,880 they're looking at some of the dodgy 883 00:41:36,309 --> 00:41:34,059 medical advice given by UK chiropractors 884 00:41:39,460 --> 00:41:36,319 really okay look I'll mention all that 885 00:41:43,839 --> 00:41:39,470 in the promo now their website is good 886 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:43,849 thinking society org and they've 887 00:41:46,930 --> 00:41:45,170 recently been reporting on the 888 00:41:49,569 --> 00:41:46,940 resurgence of faith healer peter Popoff 889 00:41:50,950 --> 00:41:49,579 Peter Piper right okay look thanks to 890 00:41:58,070 --> 00:41:50,960 that it gives me something good to think 891 00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:02,589 [Music] 892 00:42:10,370 --> 00:42:05,780 from the blog of Professor ettes at 893 00:42:12,290 --> 00:42:10,380 ernst at X at burnstow com published on 894 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:12,300 the tenth of december twenty sixteen 895 00:42:22,430 --> 00:42:15,930 when skeptics criticize homeopathy they 896 00:42:25,609 --> 00:42:22,440 are often wrong yes this post might come 897 00:42:27,740 --> 00:42:25,619 as a surprise to some and no i'm not 898 00:42:30,470 --> 00:42:27,750 changing sides in the debate about 899 00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:30,480 homeopathy but i have long felt that 900 00:42:35,660 --> 00:42:33,210 when skeptics criticize homeopathy they 901 00:42:38,109 --> 00:42:35,670 often wrong foot themselves by using 902 00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:38,119 arguments which are not entirely correct 903 00:42:44,170 --> 00:42:41,530 here i want to list at seven of them 904 00:42:48,140 --> 00:42:44,180 [Music] 905 00:42:51,620 --> 00:42:48,150 homeopathy is one single well-defined 906 00:42:54,620 --> 00:42:51,630 entity during the last two hundred years 907 00:42:57,500 --> 00:42:54,630 many different variations of Hanuman's 908 00:43:00,170 --> 00:42:57,510 classical homeopathy have emerged for 909 00:43:03,410 --> 00:43:00,180 instance clinical homeopathy complex 910 00:43:04,700 --> 00:43:03,420 homeopathy and ico pathy strictly 911 00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:04,710 speaking they should be differentiated 912 00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:06,930 and it would not be correct to 913 00:43:15,890 --> 00:43:13,650 generalize across all of them in the 200 914 00:43:20,089 --> 00:43:15,900 years history of homeopathy homeopaths 915 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:20,099 have done no good at all hanuman and his 916 00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:22,010 followers can be credited with 917 00:43:27,950 --> 00:43:25,170 considerable achievements foremost they 918 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:27,960 realized that 200 years ago most of the 919 00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:29,970 conventional treatments in common use 920 00:43:36,349 --> 00:43:33,930 were not just useless but often outright 921 00:43:38,780 --> 00:43:36,359 dangerous their criticism of quote 922 00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:38,790 heroic medicine and quote help to 923 00:43:44,180 --> 00:43:41,490 initiate crucial reforms and to improve 924 00:43:46,210 --> 00:43:44,190 health care for the benefit of millions 925 00:43:49,190 --> 00:43:46,220 [Music] 926 00:43:52,060 --> 00:43:49,200 no theories to explain how homeopathy 927 00:43:54,620 --> 00:43:52,070 might work have ever been put forward 928 00:43:57,470 --> 00:43:54,630 there are several theories which might 929 00:44:00,560 --> 00:43:57,480 go some way in explaining how homeopathy 930 00:44:03,050 --> 00:44:00,570 works but all of them are currently just 931 00:44:05,630 --> 00:44:03,060 theories and none provides a full 932 00:44:06,279 --> 00:44:05,640 explanation as to the mechanism of 933 00:44:09,549 --> 00:44:06,289 action 934 00:44:11,709 --> 00:44:09,559 of highly diluted remedies yet to claim 935 00:44:13,709 --> 00:44:11,719 that homeopathy is totally implausible 936 00:44:20,949 --> 00:44:13,719 might be a counterproductive 937 00:44:23,049 --> 00:44:20,959 exaggeration there is nothing in it many 938 00:44:26,949 --> 00:44:23,059 skeptics claim that homeopathic remedies 939 00:44:28,900 --> 00:44:26,959 are devoid of active ingredients yet not 940 00:44:31,529 --> 00:44:28,910 all soma pathak remedies are highly 941 00:44:34,269 --> 00:44:31,539 diluted some can contain 942 00:44:36,459 --> 00:44:34,279 pharmacologically active compounds for 943 00:44:38,919 --> 00:44:36,469 affecting human health these 944 00:44:44,979 --> 00:44:38,929 preparations therefore cannot be 945 00:44:47,049 --> 00:44:44,989 classified as implausible there is no 946 00:44:50,019 --> 00:44:47,059 credible evidence at all that might 947 00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:50,029 support homeopathy several well 948 00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:52,249 conducted clinical studies of homeopathy 949 00:44:57,849 --> 00:44:54,410 with positive results have been 950 00:44:59,739 --> 00:44:57,859 published it is therefore not true to 951 00:45:02,370 --> 00:44:59,749 claim that there is no good trial 952 00:45:05,409 --> 00:45:02,380 evidence at all to support homeopathy 953 00:45:07,949 --> 00:45:05,419 the much better point skeptics should 954 00:45:10,509 --> 00:45:07,959 make is that the totality of the 955 00:45:12,969 --> 00:45:10,519 reliable evidence fails to show that 956 00:45:19,179 --> 00:45:12,979 highly dilute homeopathic remedies are 957 00:45:21,579 --> 00:45:19,189 more effective than placebos homeopaths 958 00:45:24,759 --> 00:45:21,589 aim at deceiving their patients because 959 00:45:26,949 --> 00:45:24,769 they have nothing to offer them it would 960 00:45:29,919 --> 00:45:26,959 be wrong to claim that all homeopaths 961 00:45:31,809 --> 00:45:29,929 aim at deceiving their patients and it 962 00:45:33,849 --> 00:45:31,819 would be misleading to say that 963 00:45:35,859 --> 00:45:33,859 homeopaths have nothing to offer to 964 00:45:38,559 --> 00:45:35,869 their patients many patients have 965 00:45:40,479 --> 00:45:38,569 homeopaths primarily treasure the long 966 00:45:42,399 --> 00:45:40,489 compassionate consultations that 967 00:45:45,309 --> 00:45:42,409 homeopaths have with their patients and 968 00:45:48,819 --> 00:45:45,319 see the homeopathic remedy as secondary 969 00:45:51,219 --> 00:45:48,829 seen from this perspective homeopaths do 970 00:45:57,189 --> 00:45:51,229 offer something that many patients value 971 00:46:00,239 --> 00:45:57,199 highly patients who use homeopathy must 972 00:46:02,589 --> 00:46:00,249 be stupid it would be arrogant 973 00:46:04,989 --> 00:46:02,599 consulting and counterproductive to 974 00:46:08,349 --> 00:46:04,999 claim that everyone who uses homeopathy 975 00:46:10,839 --> 00:46:08,359 is stupid patients consult homeopaths 976 00:46:12,519 --> 00:46:10,849 mostly because they have a needs which 977 00:46:15,159 --> 00:46:12,529 are not being met by conventional 978 00:46:17,739 --> 00:46:15,169 medicine but which they feel taken care 979 00:46:19,810 --> 00:46:17,749 of by homeopathy seen from this 980 00:46:21,850 --> 00:46:19,820 perspective the current popular 981 00:46:24,580 --> 00:46:21,860 verity of homeopathy in some countries 982 00:46:27,460 --> 00:46:24,590 is a poignant criticism of conventional 983 00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:27,470 medicine to dismiss it as stupidity 984 00:46:31,900 --> 00:46:29,930 means missing a chance to learn an 985 00:46:34,870 --> 00:46:31,910 important lesson and to improve 986 00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:34,880 mainstream health care I know my stance 987 00:46:39,730 --> 00:46:37,850 here can easily get misunderstood but 988 00:46:41,590 --> 00:46:39,740 please don't get me wrong i am not 989 00:46:43,810 --> 00:46:41,600 saying that homeopathy is a useful 990 00:46:46,390 --> 00:46:43,820 therapy nor am I suggesting that we 991 00:46:48,940 --> 00:46:46,400 should not criticize it or stop public 992 00:46:51,430 --> 00:46:48,950 funding for it all that I am trying to 993 00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:51,440 convey here is when we criticize 994 00:46:57,070 --> 00:46:54,050 homeopathy we ought to make sure our 995 00:46:59,590 --> 00:46:57,080 arguments are factually correct if not 996 00:47:02,470 --> 00:46:59,600 we only give ammunition to our opponents 997 00:47:04,720 --> 00:47:02,480 in a nutshell I don't wish to undermine 998 00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:04,730 our arguments but I want them to be more 999 00:47:09,940 --> 00:47:08,330 effective and that was when skeptics 1000 00:47:12,550 --> 00:47:09,950 criticized homeopathy they are often 1001 00:47:14,290 --> 00:47:12,560 wrong written by heads up Ernst 1002 00:47:18,070 --> 00:47:14,300 published on the 10th for december at 1003 00:47:19,110 --> 00:47:18,080 its hard ernst calm with a link in this 1004 00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:19,120 week's show notes 1005 00:47:34,060 --> 00:47:31,570 [Music] 1006 00:47:36,310 --> 00:47:34,070 quack watch your guide to quackery 1007 00:47:39,670 --> 00:47:36,320 health fraud and intelligent decisions 1008 00:47:41,710 --> 00:47:39,680 operated by Steven Barrett MD crack 1009 00:47:43,330 --> 00:47:41,720 watch is now an international network of 1010 00:47:45,550 --> 00:47:43,340 people who concerned about 1011 00:47:48,070 --> 00:47:45,560 health-related frauds myths fans 1012 00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:48,080 fallacies and misconduct its primary 1013 00:47:53,380 --> 00:47:50,930 focus is on quackery related information 1014 00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:53,390 that is difficult or impossible to get 1015 00:47:59,590 --> 00:47:56,210 elsewhere articles on quackery include 1016 00:48:03,210 --> 00:47:59,600 quackery how should it be defined how it 1017 00:48:06,430 --> 00:48:03,220 sells 26 ways to spot it how it comes 1018 00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:06,440 cancer patients 7 warning signs for 1019 00:48:11,910 --> 00:48:08,930 bogus science why health professionals 1020 00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:11,920 become quacks and many more including 1021 00:48:17,530 --> 00:48:13,850 in-depth looks at acupuncture 1022 00:48:22,790 --> 00:48:17,540 chiropractic homeopathy naturopathy and 1023 00:48:39,720 --> 00:48:22,800 much more visit www quack watch com 1024 00:48:44,950 --> 00:48:42,040 thank you for listening to the skeptic 1025 00:48:47,650 --> 00:48:44,960 zone was that expression that famous old 1026 00:48:51,579 --> 00:48:47,660 cliche may you live in interesting times 1027 00:48:54,700 --> 00:48:51,589 well we are living in interesting times 1028 00:48:58,870 --> 00:48:54,710 I wonder what this next week will bring 1029 00:49:01,900 --> 00:48:58,880 us newswise from the United States it's 1030 00:49:05,050 --> 00:49:01,910 it's hard to keep up with it really is 1031 00:49:06,339 --> 00:49:05,060 it's it's staggering as I mentioned at 1032 00:49:08,530 --> 00:49:06,349 the top of the show there may well be 1033 00:49:10,780 --> 00:49:08,540 some sort of protest march organized by 1034 00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:10,790 the scientific community now one of the 1035 00:49:18,579 --> 00:49:16,130 things that worried me long before we 1036 00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:18,589 heard about the real action taken by the 1037 00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:20,930 Trump administration or they're trying 1038 00:49:28,859 --> 00:49:24,410 was the fact that vice president Pence 1039 00:49:33,010 --> 00:49:28,869 is a well he seems to be a creationist 1040 00:49:34,180 --> 00:49:33,020 so I'm sure my friend Eugenie Scott who 1041 00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:34,190 worked for the National Center for 1042 00:49:38,020 --> 00:49:35,810 Science Education is equally concerned 1043 00:49:39,700 --> 00:49:38,030 about that I might might see if I can 1044 00:49:42,069 --> 00:49:39,710 have a word to Jeanne about that anyway 1045 00:49:43,870 --> 00:49:42,079 lots happening in the world when it 1046 00:49:46,809 --> 00:49:43,880 comes to science and reason these days 1047 00:49:48,550 --> 00:49:46,819 folks we live in an interesting time 1048 00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:48,560 indeed thank you to those people who 1049 00:49:53,349 --> 00:49:50,210 find the skeptic sound interesting and 1050 00:49:56,349 --> 00:49:53,359 interesting enough to support the show 1051 00:49:57,819 --> 00:49:56,359 by patreon or just via micro payments at 1052 00:50:01,900 --> 00:49:57,829 PayPal and you can do all that at 1053 00:50:05,650 --> 00:50:01,910 skeptic zone dot TV the microphone I'm 1054 00:50:07,510 --> 00:50:05,660 speaking into right now was bought by 1055 00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:07,520 listeners of the skeptic zone via those 1056 00:50:11,980 --> 00:50:09,890 contributions and I thank you very much 1057 00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:11,990 and thank you to those people who also 1058 00:50:19,510 --> 00:50:14,450 support our reporter Maynard at Maynard 1059 00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:19,520 calm da to or patreon.com / Maynard for 1060 00:50:24,730 --> 00:50:21,410 his efforts into bringing entertainment 1061 00:50:27,370 --> 00:50:24,740 and comedy to the world via his podcast 1062 00:50:29,829 --> 00:50:27,380 with Tim Ferguson bunga bunga Andy's 1063 00:50:32,230 --> 00:50:29,839 other podcasts so please check that out 1064 00:50:34,630 --> 00:50:32,240 and if you enjoy Maynard's work he is 1065 00:50:37,030 --> 00:50:34,640 well worth supporting and if you would 1066 00:50:39,069 --> 00:50:37,040 like may nod to do some possibly some 1067 00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:39,079 voiceover work for you or something else 1068 00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:42,050 DJ work why not dropping the line just 1069 00:50:49,390 --> 00:50:46,130 visit Maynard com go to you and see what 1070 00:50:50,769 --> 00:50:49,400 he can do for you once again thank you 1071 00:50:55,509 --> 00:50:50,779 for listening 1072 00:50:57,809 --> 00:50:55,519 and for this week until next week which 1073 00:51:00,819 --> 00:50:57,819 will no doubt be a week filled with 1074 00:51:03,339 --> 00:51:00,829 shall we say interesting news this is 1075 00:51:09,609 --> 00:51:03,349 Richard Saunders signing off from Sydney 1076 00:51:12,130 --> 00:51:09,619 Australia you've been listening to the 1077 00:51:15,969 --> 00:51:12,140 sceptics own podcast visit our website 1078 00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:15,979 at wwc aiptek zoomtv for contacts and 1079 00:51:22,419 --> 00:51:19,249 archive of all episodes since 2008 and 1080 00:51:24,459 --> 00:51:22,429 our online store please support the 1081 00:51:27,819 --> 00:51:24,469 skeptic zone by following us on twitter 1082 00:51:31,329 --> 00:51:27,829 at skeptic zone liking us on facebook 1083 00:51:32,859 --> 00:51:31,339 and leaving a review on iTunes you can 1084 00:51:36,669 --> 00:51:32,869 also show your support by subscribing 1085 00:51:39,729 --> 00:51:36,679 via paypal for as little as 99 cents a 1086 00:51:41,319 --> 00:51:39,739 week the skeptic zone is an independent 1087 00:51:43,779 --> 00:51:41,329 production the views and opinions 1088 00:51:45,399 --> 00:51:43,789 expressed on the skeptic zone and not 1089 00:51:48,279 --> 00:51:45,409 necessarily those of Australian 1090 00:51:56,810 --> 00:51:48,289 skeptically or any other skeptical 1091 00:52:03,960 --> 00:51:59,849 so here's the transmitted yeah but to 1092 00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:03,970 put a put a bow yeah it's all right yeah 1093 00:52:08,370 --> 00:52:06,490 that's great and it's really good to see 1094 00:52:15,420 --> 00:52:08,380 that the Northern Rivers vaccination 1095 00:52:21,690 --> 00:52:15,430 support is it's a cat at the door Mord 1096 00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:21,700 what do you want you're going to come in 1097 00:52:31,260 --> 00:52:29,890 or out if you're coming in come in you